From andrewi@harlequin.co.uk Mon Oct 27 05:15:39 1997 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil "Mon" "27" "October" "1997" "13:14:58" "GMT" "Andrew Innes" "andrewi@harlequin.co.uk" nil "37" "Re: [scotts@taa.com: Emacs 20.2 tries to write out of addr space on Windows 95]" "^From:" nil nil "10" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: from holly.cam.harlequin.co.uk (holly.cam.harlequin.co.uk [193.128.4.58]) by june.cs.washington.edu (8.8.7+CS/7.2ju) with ESMTP id FAA26555 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 05:15:37 -0800 Received: from propos.long.harlequin.co.uk (propos.long.harlequin.co.uk [193.128.93.50]) by holly.cam.harlequin.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA18532; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:15:32 GMT Received: from woozle.long.harlequin.co.uk (woozle.long.harlequin.co.uk [193.128.93.77]) by propos.long.harlequin.co.uk (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA29695; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:14:58 GMT Message-Id: <199710271314.NAA29695@propos.long.harlequin.co.uk> In-reply-to: <199710240321.VAA19582@santafe.santafe.edu> (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:21:04 -0600) From: Andrew Innes To: rms@gnu.org CC: voelker@cs.washington.edu Subject: Re: [scotts@taa.com: Emacs 20.2 tries to write out of addr space on Windows 95] Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:14:58 GMT On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:21:04 -0600, Richard Stallman said: > Yes, I've run 20.2 a little bit. It's not that it doesn't run or work > (it does, at least in English locales); rather some of the MULE features > (most notably display but probably also input methods) > >Why would input methods in general require a lot of change? They are >mostly written in Lisp, and should be portable. Ah, okay. I wasn't sure about that (I haven't looked at leim yet). I had thought some of them were X-based programs. > but people > will surely want to use native Windows fonts as well, and indeed native > input methods where available (eg. on CJK systems). > >I am not sure this is really the better way. Partly because it is >good to make this portable, and partly because the "native" input >methods may not fit in well with Emacs and its ways of handling input >methods, and partly because they are probably proprietary. > >If they require very little change in Emacs, much as supporting X's >Compose Character feature takes very little change in Emacs, then we >might as well support them, but in that case it would be easy to do. Localized versions of Windows included input method editors (if appropriate) as a standard part of the operating system - in that sense they are not proprietary. Application developers can choose the degree to which the IME appears to be a seamless part of the application; the basic level is that the IME is like a separate process, which requires no cooperation from the application. I don't know at the moment how much work would be involved in having closer integration, and whether closer integration would "fit" well with the Emacs style. Certainly I will not be looking at the possibility of using native input methods until the font display issues are resolved. AndrewI From rms@santafe.edu Thu Oct 23 20:22:07 1997 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil "Thu" "23" "October" "1997" "21:21:04" "-0600" "Richard Stallman" "rms@santafe.edu" nil "19" "Re: [scotts@taa.com: Emacs 20.2 tries to write out of addr space on Windows 95]" "^From:" nil nil "10" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: from sfi.santafe.edu (sfi.santafe.edu [192.12.12.1]) by june.cs.washington.edu (8.8.7+CS/7.2ju) with SMTP id UAA15661 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:22:06 -0700 Received: from santafe.santafe.edu by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03965; Thu, 23 Oct 97 21:19:50 MDT Received: by santafe.santafe.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA19582; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:21:04 -0600 Message-Id: <199710240321.VAA19582@santafe.santafe.edu> In-Reply-To: <199710231620.RAA16983@propos.long.harlequin.co.uk> (message from Andrew Innes on Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:20:44 +0100 (BST)) Reply-To: rms@gnu.org References: <199710231620.RAA16983@propos.long.harlequin.co.uk> From: Richard Stallman To: andrewi@harlequin.co.uk Cc: voelker@cs.washington.edu Subject: Re: [scotts@taa.com: Emacs 20.2 tries to write out of addr space on Windows 95] Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:21:04 -0600 Yes, I've run 20.2 a little bit. It's not that it doesn't run or work (it does, at least in English locales); rather some of the MULE features (most notably display but probably also input methods) Why would input methods in general require a lot of change? They are mostly written in Lisp, and should be portable. but people will surely want to use native Windows fonts as well, and indeed native input methods where available (eg. on CJK systems). I am not sure this is really the better way. Partly because it is good to make this portable, and partly because the "native" input methods may not fit in well with Emacs and its ways of handling input methods, and partly because they are probably proprietary. If they require very little change in Emacs, much as supporting X's Compose Character feature takes very little change in Emacs, then we might as well support them, but in that case it would be easy to do.